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Rank: Iron Gamer!
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We were playing our D&D campaign after a long hiatus, so the DM was trying to finish it up quick so we could start a 4th ed. campaign! Well, we get to the end of the game, we're fighting the boss (an Illithid elder brain and it's body guards). It's a CR17 encounter, and our average level is something like 9  So the DM warns us that we might just have a full-party wipe, so give it all we got! We devise a clever strategy, and manage to isolate the things... anyway, the barbarian in the party is fighting the elder brain head on. She's wearing it down, but on it's turn it does something like 8 tentacle attacks, and she got pretty low on health at some points (though the cleric is pumping health into her). Well, I was trying to keep track of the brains hp (the dm warned us when we got it just below 100) and the barbarian pre-rolls her attack (since we have a big group, we like to have our rolls done before it's our turn to speed up combat) and she scores a crit! She rolls damage and does 54 damage to the thing, which, by my estimate is at just above 60 hp. Ok, here's why I'm an ass: I go right before her (bcs she delayed earlier in the combat to give me room for a fireball) and I decide to unleash a maximized lightning bolt (60 dmg if it hits). Now, mind you it has spell resistance 26 or so, and gets a save for half dmg. I wound up doing all 60 damage to the brain... and it dies. Then the dm announces that's the end of the campaign. Amidst high-fives, I look over at the barbarian, and she looks like she's raging irl bcs I stole her kill, and denied her a magnificent cu-de-gras. She's a really good friend of mine, and she's kinda annoyed with me. I feel really bad that I stole her kill when I was just trying to make sure she got the killing-blow. In hindsight, I wish I had just used a magic missile -_-;; Next campaign, I might just play a support role 
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Rank: Junior Gamer
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Just copy a scene from The Big Hit, tell her The Illithid was still twitching so it was still alive and her hit finished the beast once and for all.
BTW have you read through the 4th ed rules yet. So far I like them, sure it all but require players to use minis, but that is not big deal for me. My biggest beef with the players book is it is not very well organized. I started from the front and did not skip around. I found that I really did not understand what most of the terms used did until I finished the book and went back to reread things I was unclear on. I have not read the DM book that much, but what I did read gives me the feeling that it is more geared for the newest of players/DMs.
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I'm tempted to buy the box set, but I doubt I'll ever play it. If we do get some D&D in it'll be 3.5 because I run Iron Kingdoms.
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Rank: Iron Gamer!
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gregdorf wrote:Just copy a scene from The Big Hit, tell her The Illithid was still twitching so it was still alive and her hit finished the beast once and for all. I only knocked it down to -3 or so, I guess that actually might have worked if the DM had said it.... Quote:BTW have you read through the 4th ed rules yet. So far I like them, sure it all but require players to use minis, but that is not big deal for me. My biggest beef with the players book is it is not very well organized. I started from the front and did not skip around. I found that I really did not understand what most of the terms used did until I finished the book and went back to reread things I was unclear on. I have not read the DM book that much, but what I did read gives me the feeling that it is more geared for the newest of players/DMs. I havn't gotten the books yet, but I read through a lot of preview stuff. We already use minis, so that's no problem.
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so does 4th feel like WOW on paper? ...o, and you are an ass 
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kainthedragoonx wrote:so does 4th feel like WOW on paper? That's what all my friends are saying. Quote:...o, and you are an ass Thanks Kain, I feel mmuch better now.  How do you apologize for an RPG faux pas like this? Hmmm, maybe I'll buy her a mtg booster pack!
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Zomboner wrote:kainthedragoonx wrote:so does 4th feel like WOW on paper? That's what all my friends are saying. Damn, that sucks.  I was hoping for more of a "traditional" return, without the crazy system. O well. I'll have to try it out and see what happens. Quote:Quote:...o, and you are an ass Thanks Kain, I feel mmuch better now. How do you apologize for an RPG faux pas like this? Hmmm, maybe I'll buy her a mtg booster pack! Dude, just apologize. It was luck of the dice. What if you missed? What if the boss made his spell save or whatever. Dice are Dice. There was really nothing you could do. Just tell her your sorry.
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kainthedragoonx wrote:Dude, just apologize. It was luck of the dice. What if you missed? What if the boss made his spell save or whatever. Dice are Dice. There was really nothing you could do. Just tell her your sorry. I did, and she accepted, but I think she's still a bit upset. It's just that she's one of my best friends, and I would hate for her to think I'm a glory hog and make her not want to game with me anymore. I'm probably overreacting 
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She plays MTG right? Bribe her with Rares you currently own and she wants/needs.
It's better than a pack because you are giving something up and she is getting something she needs!
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kainthedragoonx wrote:so does 4th feel like WOW on paper? Yes and no, At its core it is still a d20 system, the biggest change is to character creation and some dice roll mods. All dice rolls have a modifier based on the character level, this also effects things like AC. One of the biggest changes is saves are very generic and you have a 50% chance of success or fail, but this can be changed when there are racial factors or feats involved. Usually the only times you make saves is if there is an effect caused by a power/spell that remains in play, if something is burning, bleeding, or stunned for example. All characters have class powers, this can be spells for caster types or special martial art moves for more physical types. Powers that have the "at will" can be used all the time and never exhaust, while power that have the "Daily" special can only be used once a day and cannot be used again until after a 6 hour rest. Usually the players will only have one attack, but depending on the power/move the player uses they can have more attacks, or attacks that hit like a ton of bricks.
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I might have to try this out at GenCon or something. Sadly my group doesn't play RPG's so I have to join other groups, and most of the public ones are full of people I would rather not play with.
I think I need to get my Iron Kingdoms group running again.
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gregdorf wrote:kainthedragoonx wrote:so does 4th feel like WOW on paper? Yes and no, At its core it is still a d20 system, the biggest change is to character creation and some dice roll mods. All dice rolls have a modifier based on the character level, this also effects things like AC. One of the biggest changes is saves are very generic and you have a 50% chance of success or fail, but this can be changed when there are racial factors or feats involved. Usually the only times you make saves is if there is an effect caused by a power/spell that remains in play, if something is burning, bleeding, or stunned for example. All characters have class powers, this can be spells for caster types or special martial art moves for more physical types. Powers that have the "at will" can be used all the time and never exhaust, while power that have the "Daily" special can only be used once a day and cannot be used again until after a 6 hour rest. Usually the players will only have one attack, but depending on the power/move the player uses they can have more attacks, or attacks that hit like a ton of bricks. One of the cooler things I've been reading about are the healing surges. I guess everyone is able to heal themselves to a limited degree, and when you receive healing it's according to your healing surge, not the caster/spell being cast on you. Or something like that, maybe Gregdorf can fill in the gaps in my knowledge.
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Yeah, healing surges are actions that a player can take to recover damage or gain boost to defense, there is a third thing a healing surge can do, but I cannot remember ATM. The number of surges a player can do is based more on the character class. A player can also get free healing surges from spells/powers and a few other sources. one of the odd things about a surge, the free ones proved by a cleric as example. A level 1 or a level 30 healer will provide the same healing depending on the targets hit points. A basic healing surge will do 1/4 of the total HP.
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Amazon hosed me on my box set (big shock, Amazon messed up a pre-order item???) so I don't have my rules yet. But from what I've read online, fluff-wise, what they did to the setting very much makes it World of D&D-craft. And a lot of the new class based stuff is very similar as well. But it did look like a stripped down D20 system at the core still. I'll be reading all the books whenever mine finally come in though. But, after buying a lot of 3.0, then having 3.5 come out and now 4, I won't be buying anything other than the main books.
"I'm a world-class assassin, f*ckhead. How do you think I found out?" - Mr. Goodkat
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changed topic title
humm...interesting. Sounds like I might have to check it out. I really don't care for d20 all that much, at least not in it's last incarnation!
That being said, characters should be easier to handle and maintain with the powers. No longer will Spell Casters (my favorite classes) have to worry about keeping track of spells and abilities and all that crap!
I know I will buy the material sooner or later, and I will have to try the game out before I make any choices...like I did for 3.5. I think my RPG group will be trying fourth soon enough.
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You know, I've never understood why people didn't like the D20 system. Maybe I just don't play enough RPG's anymore to understand, but it always seemed decent to me.
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Breten wrote:You know, I've never understood why people didn't like the D20 system. Maybe I just don't play enough RPG's anymore to understand, but it always seemed decent to me. After thinking about it for a little bit, I experienced two things I really disliked about Role Playing... One, is that lack of role playing opportunity. Certain skills did nothing for you combat wise, and ended up being a total waste...except you had to take them to get into a certain prestige class! Also, the classes that were more role playing (Warlord, most of the priest prestige classes) sucked compared to a lot of the more martial classes. This could have been a problem of the groups I played in...but the system itself did not reward people for doing anything other than rolling initiative. The next biggest thing is that you basically had to own the latest book in order to be able to be on the same page as everyone else. It seemed that every release for 3.5 contained something newer and more powerful than anything else released. It is one thing to have Zomboner's experience every once in a while. But if it happened every fight, every night, every time, you get real old real quick. D20 is nothing more than combat with experience. It could have been Mordhiem with the way it's played. At least in my experiences. I want my Role playing games to allow us to developer characters and stories. Sure combat happens, but there needs to be other things going on too. There is more to Role playing than initiative. Seriously... I guess I just played too many games where character development is really important.
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4th ed may not change that much for you Kain, most of the powers are based around combat situation. Some of them have uses outside combat, rogue stuff and warlock stuff stand out the strongest, but that is not the norm. When it comes to roll playing I think it has more to do with the group you game with and the DM running the game.
My beef I had with 3/3.5 was that there was too much of the same stuff, no matter what setting you played in. Character builds are always the same and you would put yourself at a disadvantage if you broke from those build types. With 4th, you can create a little more style with your characters. If you want to play a cleric, the god you pick will give you access to a few feats that are for that god only.
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I suppose that make sense. Though I think the majority of D20 Haters, hate because it's the cool thing to do. I hadn't played D&D since AD&D 2nd edition, so to me the D20 mechanic was great, as it simplified everything. I definately agree there was a power creep with each new book. Considering the magazines had articles on how to create the best characters, it's not surprising the game was geared towards Hack & Slash power-gaming.
We didn't have too much problem with the role-playing aspect, but my group is usually pretty loose anyways. In a 4 hour game session we would be actually lucky to get in an actual hours worth of gaming, everyone just chatted so much. And admittedly I'm more of a hack and slash Dm as I'm not so good with the roll playing and fancy voices. I tend to go on about "You walk into the room, he tells you this and that, and then draws a sword and attacks the thief". I always felt ridiculous doing the conversation between an NPC and one of my PC's. I tend to be a third-person type of D&D'er.
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What's funny to me, is that the way they handle the spell casters now is very similar to how I always house ruled my games from beginning to 3.0. I had that the amount of spells you could "memorize" per level was instead the amount of spells you could know, so you had to pick and choose carefully, BUT you could cast those spells at will. It made the lower level casters much more survivable and able to contribute and even in the higher levels never unbalanced anything. SO that change I'm certainly in favor of, but yeah, D&D from some of the later AD&D expansions, to 2nd, through 3.5 was never inherently geared to promote role playing, you just had to have the right people for it. This just goes one step further with the minis and ranges, etc. I still think you can role play if you want to, but there's nothing in there to force you to.
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