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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 55
Location: Saskatoon
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I was talking with one of the owners of my LGS recently and he was mentioning HellDorado and that they were trying to bring some minis in for the game. I mentioned Alkemy to him, so as a result he's going to look into that game also. I was just wondering which of the two games you all would recommend. I know posting this in the Alkemy forum is a little biased, but I didn't want to post it multiple places. Ryan
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Rank: Junior Gamer
Joined: 4/15/2008
Posts: 305
Location: Chicago, IL
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Alkemy currently has better distribution. But Alkemy's biggest problem is the current length of time between their releases.
Hell Dorado doesn't have any official US distribution yet.
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Rank: Zealot
Joined: 3/24/2008
Posts: 1,341
Location: Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
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I think it boils down to preferece. I have played a bit of Alkemy, and lots of HellDorado. I prefer the HellDorado system as it's less figs, whereas Alkemy has a few more figs, more Warband sized (at 300 points anyways). He's not going to be able to get Helldorado unless he has some kind of in somewhere, as many Canadian stores have tried to get it in, but can't even get word from Asmodee. So Alkemy definatey is the better choice in terms of support. HellDorado isn't there yet.
I also find the HellDorado sculpts to be a little "blander" than HellDorado's. HellDorado is the choice locally, but we've all been ordering online for our fix since it came out.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/3/2007
Posts: 33
Location: Hudson, NY
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Breten wrote:I also find the HellDorado sculpts to be a little "blander" than HellDorado's. I read this a little too early in the morning, and briefly lost my mind.
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Rank: Gaming Incarnate
Joined: 8/14/2007
Posts: 2,667
Location: The TTG Ziggurat (Cincinnati, Oh)
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I think it's suppose to be "Alkemy's models are a little blander..."
Administrator, Gaming Addict, and Forum Monkey! Get Your Game On!Razing Kain
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Rank: Zealot
Joined: 3/24/2008
Posts: 1,341
Location: Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
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Yeah, oops. I find the Alkemy sculpts a little blander. I'm not saying they aren't good, my preference is just more to the HellDorado stuff. I blame it on my recovery.
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Rank: Junior Gamer
Joined: 4/15/2008
Posts: 305
Location: Chicago, IL
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Any news on the terraformation stuff you have? Is it just the ice?
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Rank: Artist
Joined: 8/21/2007
Posts: 503
Location: St. Louis, MO
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North American distribution of Alkemy pretty much kicks as much ass as humanly possible. Kraken advantage is... US warehouse perfectly situated in the heart of the midwest. Most distributors have their orders shipped within 48 hours or less.
www.doughamilton3d.com
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 10/29/2008
Posts: 55
Location: Saskatoon
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Thanks all my LGS did say they were having troubles getting Helldorado minis in. I'll mention that Alkemy has a better distribution system currently. Ryan
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/9/2009
Posts: 83
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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I just went through this dilemna a couple weeks ago. When choosing between the two games, I went to various game related sites and asked questions, I took into account how much I liked the models and the ease in which I could get a local player base going.
I decided on Alkemy because of the last criteria. First, I couldn't find a ruleset in English for HellDorado. Also, my LGS wouldn't even order it, due to past problems the distributor had. Only a few online retailers even offer the product. It all seemed too difficult.
I still bought some HellDorado minis online, and will probably put somethng together for some upcoming trips to Chicago (you'll play the game with me, right Sketch?), but the local interest in Alkemy seems good, which I will soon push over the edge with some painted Aurlock an Khaliman.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/9/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Connecticut, USA
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I swore off Helldorado a long time ago. I purchased the models. Downloaded the poorly translated "official" starter rules and played some demos. Was an ok game. Then the company came out and said "We are not making an official English Rulebook. IT's not our language and we don't want to translate it". I sold all of my stuff. So did alot of other people in my area.
They have since changed thier mind and will be coming out with an English rulebook in the near future. On thier site, in the English section, they have a free download of a poor translation.
If you believe they are going to actually come out with a book then it's a hard choice. If you, like me, are going to wait and see, then the 28 dollars to get into Alkemy isn't a bad investment.
As far as models go, my Helldorado stuff had gaps all over the place and was difficult to assemble. I had to use pins all over the place and some joints were cut in such a way as to be difficult to assemble and impossible to pin. The Alkemy stuff went together in about 15 minutes. That includes removing mould lines and assembling on whole starter. Everything went smooth and I had not one issue.
In the end though, play the game that you like the look of the models better. There is nothing less satisfying then sitting at the painting table and painting models that you think are ugly.
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Rank: Zealot
Joined: 3/24/2008
Posts: 1,341
Location: Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
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I gotta say I haven't had a single problem with any of the Hell Dorado models I have seen (the entire line), and as far as pinning goes, most of us pin everything anyways, coming from a Rackham background. And that wasn't the reason they gave for not doing Hell Dorado in English, it was a far more complex problem due to the graphic content of the subject at hand. I also wouldn't say the English rulebook is poorly translated, I haven't run into any problems with it yet. Most of the perceived issues I've seen were due to differences in the official translation and all the fan translations. It's definately not Rackham level translating.
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Rank: Zealot
Joined: 11/15/2007
Posts: 1,000
Location: Cincinnati
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Jestor wrote:
As far as models go, my Helldorado stuff had gaps all over the place and was difficult to assemble. I had to use pins all over the place and some joints were cut in such a way as to be difficult to assemble and impossible to pin. The Alkemy stuff went together in about 15 minutes. That includes removing mould lines and assembling on whole starter. Everything went smooth and I had not one issue.
Really? I had 2 starters and have bought all the Saracens releases since (and some mercs) and do not share this opinion on Helldorado on assembly. Yes, I pin joints but that is SOP for me. No GS or cutting needed. However, the opinion that Alkemy is easier to assemble cannot be denied.
Selling for Gen Con: Goal $2000 Earned: $570
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Rank: Junior Gamer
Joined: 9/24/2007
Posts: 419
Location: Kansas
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I cannot say that I ever had any problems putting my Helldorado stuff together, my panther was a little wonky but everything else went together fine. I am with Jestor on the other problems with the game. Between the distribution problems and their past stance on support for english language product I really cannot say that I want to support this game ATM. Things can change, but that will not happen until the book is in my hands.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 2/9/2009
Posts: 43
Location: Connecticut, USA
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The box I assembled was the starter for "the Lost" faction.
As a guy who has assembled Steelheads and Nyss Hunters with pins, I found the female that comes with them unbearable. The shoulder joints of the two medium sized beasts were very poorly cut on mine.
I got my stuff right when it first came out so perhaps it was a bad production run for those pieces?
It still can't be denied. When looking at the two games, one is certainly easier to put together then the other :)
All in all, my advice from the first post stands though, play what is most visually appealing to you.
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Rank: Junior Gamer
Joined: 10/13/2008
Posts: 135
Location: WA
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Personally I prefer the Alkemy rules and the Hell Dorado figures. As I'm primarily in this for the game that means Alkemy wins out for me, I still buy some Hell Dorado stuff though.
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Rank: Junior Gamer
Joined: 2/21/2008
Posts: 59
Location: Finland
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Both are great games, IMO! But they are quite a bit different from one another. Both are tactical, but Hell Dorado feels a bit more chess like while Alkemy is more sort of free-flowing. The control zones and a huge host of special abilities makes Hell Dorado feel more tactical in places, though I'm not quite sure if it just feels like it or if it actually is. Hell Dorado is also much more bloody and quite a bit quicker altogether, but Alkemy has the great combat card system making the actual exchange-of-blows more interactive and tactical. I also like the action points a lot and the dice system for wounds is extremely elegant.
So, in summary, both are great but individual tastes most likely vary a bit. Getting people on board is the most important part, though (playing alone is not fun), so if Alkemy has a vastly better distribution in your neck of the woods then that's a huge bonus for it, IMHO.
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Rank: Zealot
Joined: 3/24/2008
Posts: 267
Location: Chicago, IL
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As others have already mentioned, it really boils down to personal choice.
For myself, I actually prefer the Alkemy rules and minis over Hell's. I don't think Hell is a bad game or anything, but the feel, the style, just doesn't gel with me as much as Alkemy's.
If possible, talk your store owner into carrying BOTH! :)
"Wheels within wheels in a spiral array, a pattern so grand and complex.
Time after time we lose sight of the way, our causes can't see their effects."
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Rank: Store Owner
Joined: 12/6/2007
Posts: 195
Location: Chicago
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Play Alkemy. They are actually producing a rule set that supports the English speaking world, they actually want folks to play, so they make it available to retail stores and hey - they are nice guys too.  (pssst)  Hey Doug... where is my LE for plugging your game ?  But seriously. I'd support the game that is actually _trying_ to make it here in the US. All things equal, it's the better (and more supported) game.
27 Years - a retailer, game designer, painter, modeler and event organizer. I need to find a job that actually pays...
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Rank: Artist
Joined: 8/21/2007
Posts: 503
Location: St. Louis, MO
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Splat wrote:Play Alkemy. They are actually producing a rule set that supports the English speaking world, they actually want folks to play, so they make it available to retail stores and hey - they are nice guys too. (pssst) Hey Doug... where is my LE for plugging your game ? But seriously. I'd support the game that is actually _trying_ to make it here in the US. All things equal, it's the better (and more supported) game. Which one would you like :)
www.doughamilton3d.com
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